I loved this substack. In my opinion, your perspective about all this stuff is really interesting.
I think that keeping your personal life in private gives a new perspective to all your work and to you as a person and celebrity.
On one hand, you have famous people like Kim Kardashian, who lets you see all her routine and what she has to deal with everyday. I find that very entertaining, but I don't feel a connection between her life and mine. It's not because of the fact that she is a celebrity and a millionaire but that I don't feel she is being honest when she does everything that she does.
On the other hand, you have people like you, who don't share much about her personal life. It makes me feel that you are not a famous singer but a simple girl who doesn't like that other people know whats she is doing, just like any of us. I think it also gives a new meaning to your music. The metaphors you use plus not knowing certain things about your life makes us interpret the lyrics with a more personal view than if you just went to an interview and explained the whole context of the song.
Another good example of this it's Mitski. She is one of my favorite singers (you are one of them too) and I barely know things about her personal life. Yes, she has explained a lot of her songs and albums concepts, but knowing that she has a life nobody else apart from her knows a lot about makes me connect more with her that with artists who would say or do anything just for some new followers.
I don't know if I was clear while writing this, but I hope I was. Really enjoyed listening to it! Love u <3
Thank you! I think it's a counterintuitive truth that boundaries and privacy actually create more intimacy, not less. I agree that Mitski is a good example of a celebrity with boundaries, and I really admire that about her.
I like to joke that if I didn't wear a mask in public it would be too intimate to let strangers see my face, especially working in retail where customers generally cross boundaries and can be creeps (also plenty of people still dont cover their coughs and it stresses me out.) Even in face to face interactions with customers at work it feels healthiest to me to create a distance with the parts of myself that I identify with and value so I can kinda shed the negative associations of how I might be treated once I'm out of the work uniform, customer service voice, etc. I know that's a different experience and not related to the world of celebrity but I think that for a lot of people that can be "being Mickey Mouse" because it gets to be really draining to be your genuine self with every person you interact with, especially if it's a large number of people and they don't treat you as a real person. Idk. Not totally related, it just made me think of the parallel.
No I think you’re onto something here. Microcellebrity isn’t the only field where “being Mickey Mouse” comes up, and my interactions with niche fame have definitely made me think more about other environments in my life where I’m “wearing a costume”.
For sure! I think of it in relation to gender performance a lot too. Like balancing and figuring out identity vs the benefits of presenting certain ways. Like if I feel better presenting more masc or if I just feel safer/less harassed the less fem I look. It's probably a combo tbh. It's a whole other can of worms but it's kinda cool how much stuff can tie into that idea. Whether it feels better to be Mickey or just worse to be Minnie if I stick to that example lol
That was deeply moving and informational about internet privacy , and celebrity’s.thanksʕ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʔ ps love the bodacious refrence
I love love this so much !! one point, though, while it's true that we ought to question if we want a king at all, now that we do have a king regardless, I think it is quite fair to bring his ideals to trial, though. because he knows the influence he has on his subjects, and it would be coddling to say he doesn't benefit from the hierarchy, even if he didn't fully consent to it
This is a valid point. I think a lot of ethical ambiguity centers around this tension between like, utilitarian triage and deontological fortitude. We have some moral obligation to accept the situation we're in and work within it, and we also have some moral obligation to not accept it (trolley problem vibes). In any given circumstance, a person decides how they're going to balance various obligations, and I think there are many good ways to balance these two. What I think is less wise is pretending like these obligations don't both exist, or like they never conflict. Like, as you said, we in fact Do care if the king sucks or not, and we may Also want to care less about his likability overall. I don't have a solution to this tension, I just think it's a nuance we should be open to (and I don't doubt that many of us are open to it, hence the discussion :p).
Being known on the internet is so terrifying to me, and yet no clue what I would do if I was given the same option. This was a great read (listen) there are some things here I haven’t considered before
Its so interesting hearing about it this way, come to think of it. if i were ever a celebrity of any kind, itd be so weird? like. What do yoou mean people just.... know who i am???
i know everyone is saying this, but- this was a really interesting perspective from which to view this social dilemma from. it’s fascinating to hear someone verbalize how much of their personhood and sense of self is intrinsically tied to their face. lately i’ve been spending a lot of time daydreaming about becoming a robot, of having my human body replaced by something distinctly inhuman. i think a big part of the reason why i would wish for such a thing is i feel like i’ve been too vulnerable, wearing my heart prominently on my sleeve and sloshing emotion all over everything i touch like an over-full bucket. i never would’ve been able to put words to why it might feel safer to be a robot, to be ignored by human society and never feel as if i have to perform humanity when things like social cues and expectations don’t come naturally to me. as much as i like to say “i’m a leo, i love attention!” the mere thought of waking up to fame that i can never really take back gives me anxiety, and i sympathize with your distress over this.
The concept of social knowledge has always fascinated me, I really appreciate being able to hear the artists side. The way I have always viewed famous artists is the same way I would view say, the ceo of a famous car manufacturing business. I really like the cars that company makes, but I dont know anything about this person, they are a stranger to me. I feel that with artists in particular however, that the internet has created a social disease, that the projected vibes of an artist are more easily crafted into parasocial delusions. Interesting to consider the causes and responsibilities of this phenomenon. Is it the artists fault for not clearly conveying the right boundaries? Is it the audience's fault for not respecting the social contract? Is it a fault in the culture or zeitgeist for manifesting this meatgrinder for the soul mania? I have literally 0 opinions or answers as I am naive and young. But its fun to think about!
I agree with u on most of this stuff but I do feel like it ALSO does matter if the king/celebrity is a good person or not. For example if an actor was a facist I wouldn’t want to see a movie he’s in.
So wait does this make you your own ghostwriter? Your own diane in a bojack suit?
I really liked this one! It was interesting to hear the artist’s perspective when you’re so used to hearing the fans. Love the voice over!
I loved this substack. In my opinion, your perspective about all this stuff is really interesting.
I think that keeping your personal life in private gives a new perspective to all your work and to you as a person and celebrity.
On one hand, you have famous people like Kim Kardashian, who lets you see all her routine and what she has to deal with everyday. I find that very entertaining, but I don't feel a connection between her life and mine. It's not because of the fact that she is a celebrity and a millionaire but that I don't feel she is being honest when she does everything that she does.
On the other hand, you have people like you, who don't share much about her personal life. It makes me feel that you are not a famous singer but a simple girl who doesn't like that other people know whats she is doing, just like any of us. I think it also gives a new meaning to your music. The metaphors you use plus not knowing certain things about your life makes us interpret the lyrics with a more personal view than if you just went to an interview and explained the whole context of the song.
Another good example of this it's Mitski. She is one of my favorite singers (you are one of them too) and I barely know things about her personal life. Yes, she has explained a lot of her songs and albums concepts, but knowing that she has a life nobody else apart from her knows a lot about makes me connect more with her that with artists who would say or do anything just for some new followers.
I don't know if I was clear while writing this, but I hope I was. Really enjoyed listening to it! Love u <3
Thank you! I think it's a counterintuitive truth that boundaries and privacy actually create more intimacy, not less. I agree that Mitski is a good example of a celebrity with boundaries, and I really admire that about her.
I like to joke that if I didn't wear a mask in public it would be too intimate to let strangers see my face, especially working in retail where customers generally cross boundaries and can be creeps (also plenty of people still dont cover their coughs and it stresses me out.) Even in face to face interactions with customers at work it feels healthiest to me to create a distance with the parts of myself that I identify with and value so I can kinda shed the negative associations of how I might be treated once I'm out of the work uniform, customer service voice, etc. I know that's a different experience and not related to the world of celebrity but I think that for a lot of people that can be "being Mickey Mouse" because it gets to be really draining to be your genuine self with every person you interact with, especially if it's a large number of people and they don't treat you as a real person. Idk. Not totally related, it just made me think of the parallel.
No I think you’re onto something here. Microcellebrity isn’t the only field where “being Mickey Mouse” comes up, and my interactions with niche fame have definitely made me think more about other environments in my life where I’m “wearing a costume”.
For sure! I think of it in relation to gender performance a lot too. Like balancing and figuring out identity vs the benefits of presenting certain ways. Like if I feel better presenting more masc or if I just feel safer/less harassed the less fem I look. It's probably a combo tbh. It's a whole other can of worms but it's kinda cool how much stuff can tie into that idea. Whether it feels better to be Mickey or just worse to be Minnie if I stick to that example lol
That was deeply moving and informational about internet privacy , and celebrity’s.thanksʕ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʔ ps love the bodacious refrence
I mean bojack not bodacious
Brilliant opinion on it all again Penelope, and extremely interesting as always! Loving the voice overs btw really brings it altogether!
I love love this so much !! one point, though, while it's true that we ought to question if we want a king at all, now that we do have a king regardless, I think it is quite fair to bring his ideals to trial, though. because he knows the influence he has on his subjects, and it would be coddling to say he doesn't benefit from the hierarchy, even if he didn't fully consent to it
This is a valid point. I think a lot of ethical ambiguity centers around this tension between like, utilitarian triage and deontological fortitude. We have some moral obligation to accept the situation we're in and work within it, and we also have some moral obligation to not accept it (trolley problem vibes). In any given circumstance, a person decides how they're going to balance various obligations, and I think there are many good ways to balance these two. What I think is less wise is pretending like these obligations don't both exist, or like they never conflict. Like, as you said, we in fact Do care if the king sucks or not, and we may Also want to care less about his likability overall. I don't have a solution to this tension, I just think it's a nuance we should be open to (and I don't doubt that many of us are open to it, hence the discussion :p).
yes, exactly !! you've put it beautifully <3
typo T-T didn't mean to put in two "thoughs"
Hold up, imma listen to it again.
One time isn’t enough Penelope for me
Being known on the internet is so terrifying to me, and yet no clue what I would do if I was given the same option. This was a great read (listen) there are some things here I haven’t considered before
so here for the bojack reference!!!!! also love hearing your thoughts this substack is my new fav thingff
you're making me question my face online and i really like the insight, thank you
Its so interesting hearing about it this way, come to think of it. if i were ever a celebrity of any kind, itd be so weird? like. What do yoou mean people just.... know who i am???
i know everyone is saying this, but- this was a really interesting perspective from which to view this social dilemma from. it’s fascinating to hear someone verbalize how much of their personhood and sense of self is intrinsically tied to their face. lately i’ve been spending a lot of time daydreaming about becoming a robot, of having my human body replaced by something distinctly inhuman. i think a big part of the reason why i would wish for such a thing is i feel like i’ve been too vulnerable, wearing my heart prominently on my sleeve and sloshing emotion all over everything i touch like an over-full bucket. i never would’ve been able to put words to why it might feel safer to be a robot, to be ignored by human society and never feel as if i have to perform humanity when things like social cues and expectations don’t come naturally to me. as much as i like to say “i’m a leo, i love attention!” the mere thought of waking up to fame that i can never really take back gives me anxiety, and i sympathize with your distress over this.
The concept of social knowledge has always fascinated me, I really appreciate being able to hear the artists side. The way I have always viewed famous artists is the same way I would view say, the ceo of a famous car manufacturing business. I really like the cars that company makes, but I dont know anything about this person, they are a stranger to me. I feel that with artists in particular however, that the internet has created a social disease, that the projected vibes of an artist are more easily crafted into parasocial delusions. Interesting to consider the causes and responsibilities of this phenomenon. Is it the artists fault for not clearly conveying the right boundaries? Is it the audience's fault for not respecting the social contract? Is it a fault in the culture or zeitgeist for manifesting this meatgrinder for the soul mania? I have literally 0 opinions or answers as I am naive and young. But its fun to think about!
I agree with u on most of this stuff but I do feel like it ALSO does matter if the king/celebrity is a good person or not. For example if an actor was a facist I wouldn’t want to see a movie he’s in.
<3 <3 <3