I love these kind of essays, I never expected some of my favorite artists to think this deep and it really expands my views as well, most of penlopes ideas are things I never thought of and this essay gave me a whole new perspective on art 10/10 I'm living for these
I really appreciate you sharing your theory of the "art network"! I found it really insightful and thought-provoking. I think the discourse that's been happening about AI vs. human art lately has made it really clear that we don't think enough about what the abstract process of art actually is (and this applies to every side of the debate, to be clear). I had a discussion with an artist friend of mine last year about that topic, and we came to the conclusion that something important about the role of a person as an artist is how their own practical experiences are represented in their work. I think I'm going to share this post with her.
Your "art network" idea is a really interesting expansion of that. It almost seems like there's two kinds of mediation going on here. Of course the art is mediating between the artist and the person engaging with the work, but the artist is also doing the job of mediating between the viewer/listener and the broader cultural background. From that perspective, the art functions less like a means of mediation and more like a direct extension of the artist, or a tool they're using for that purpose.
This leaves room for some weird John Cage-y screwing around with who or what is doing the mediating. Cage (IIRC) thought it was arrogant of us to center the human in this mediation, perhaps because it means the cultural information is going to be filtered through the perspective of an individual. There's an argument to be made that that filtering is necessary, or at least productive. But Cage's experimental stuff like 4'33" and random radio samples tried to decenter the artist from the process. Did he succeed at that? Idk. The very fact that I'm using his name as a descriptor might indicate that, despite his intentions, the imprint of Cage as an individual (through those very intentions!) is firmly placed upon the work.
But even still, it's not Cage himself that has become part of it; it's just his perspective on the zeitgeist. So we get this fascinating contradiction where the work is both profoundly personal and inherently impersonal to the artist. I guess, to sum it up, you aren't having a personal relationship *with* the artist; you're having a personal relationship *through* them.
I’m glad you like the Art Network theory! You’re touching on some interesting, information theory/data sciency concepts here. When I was doing research for this Art Network idea, I was influenced by images which diagram communication between a message’s source and its receiver. Many of the diagrams I looked at are from this book: Shannon, C. E. “A Mathematical Theory of Communication.” Reprinted with corrections from The Bell System Technical Journal, vol. 27, 1948, pp. 379-423, 623-656.
Very neat! A nice little talk to end my night on, I feel a lil smarter and more understanding after listening. P. S. The little jingles and songs in the background got me bopping my head while I listened.
As an artist, as well as an Artist, (but an artist first,) thank you for putting things that can't be put into words, into words. Love your work always 🫶
I love your definition and exploration of the descriptive and prescriptive laws, it makes so much sense. I am currently doing a counselling course and on the part of ethics it is explained in different ways how to be ethical, but people intrinsically can be caring and empathetic and following ethics, so it is very much a descriptive law.
As well your point about art and everyone having access to the network, it’s something i feel deeply now since i had to rethink my priorities. It is so strange but reassuring to feel this need to do something, read a book, write about my thoughts, write some lyrics from inspirations i have from other art. So far i have been focusing on doing work and trying to live a life, making myself feel like shit because of not being able to do everything i need to do, aka be a good cog in the capitalist machine. I am so glad i have finally woken up from that nightmare and realised what is actually important. I am looking forward to expressing my artistic self and be part of the intrinsic network.
I think with your point of blurred lines and people’s expectations of artists, my view is that this comes from a misinterpretation of what is happening now and how people should be treated the same way, as it’s how it’s been. As well in the same way that people relate the art to themselves, they see themselves in the artists as expectations. That is, they see the artist as being free, having so much money from the art they create, and don’t have to do a 9-5 job. As such, when the artist is not responding the way they expect when they see them in person, they start personalising and saying that they are ungrateful, because they want that life and they would themselves be so thankful to the fans. It stems from lack of empathy, envy, and unwillingness to understand how fame looks like in our world today. As well as wider issue of not wanting the accept how fame is affecting women in more dangerous ways, because of the patriarchy and misogyny.
Anyway, i love this and i would actually like to have a deeper dive about the technical view behind art, the way you express yourself in these posts really connect with people’s inner self and thoughts, thank you!
I just spent 20 min. Writing a comment on your amazing essay. As i forgot to send im now filled with rage and wont write it again. Just know that it was amazing and absolutely made sense. Loved the part about capitalism. P.s come to berlin 🥹
I wasn't able to listen to this when it dropped (because I had two back to back quizzes to study for), but now that I finally got around to listening/reading it, I wish I'd done it earlier, I really really love the idea of the art network, it's something that has always made sense to me even though I've never been able to explain it properly, everyone can, and should make art; For me, drawing and painting are so important to me, and I invest a lot of my time into it, but I'm not an artist, not because I'm an amateur (even though I really am lol) but because making anything at all is a simultaneously natural and alien experience, expressing yourself through art is kind of like tracing out the shape of who you are in the invisible vastness that you dubbed the art network, or like describing yourself in a language you can understand but not speak, hearing you explain it like this was so enlightening.
I'd also love to hear more about what you said in that one footnote, about how humans are creatures of syntax and so we made computers in our image? It's probably really straightforward but it sounds intriguing (and not at all insufferable?!) and I wouldn't mind hearing more about it if you ever feel like it.
Oh and congrats on your latest show, it looked amazing! ☆☆☆
I (ironically) don't have the words to articulate exactly *why* but this essay made me feel hopeful in a way. Or maybe it made me feel a little less lonely. It evoked something at the very least lol
I'm really late to this essay but I wanted to listen/read it in one sitting. I am obsessed with this theory. As an ameture actor and poet, it's empowering to think about it as communicating like ants with pheremones. I think though I got the most out of this through the lense of being a choral singer. I recently had the fortune to sing in a mass regional choir with the top singers my age in my state, and we spent a lot of time talking about how to connect with the emotional content of different pieces of music on an individual level. It's interesting to me to think about how we as a choir were one entity communicating one emotion through one piece of art, but each of us was thinking about a different feeling from a different set of circumstances. My friend group at the event went around the circle sharing all the different places and events in our lives we were projecting and attaching the songs to, and yeah they were related but there was a lot of diversity in content and range between each person, and people brought up things I would have never considered relevant to the song on my own, yet so perfectly were. And yet, when put together, we were one artist, one entity, and it was one feeling that we sent out together, all of our nodes or whatever the proper computer science term was were sending out slightly different signals and yet everyone on the receiving end interpreted them together. I think that's really what draws me to choral music, and I really appreciate you giving me the language and perspective to reflect on that.
Hey Penny I have a question will there ever be a junkyard 3 or something with your scraped/unfinished songs? Maybe some other versions like glitzy sweet hibiscus tea or love from Russia?
I love these kind of essays, I never expected some of my favorite artists to think this deep and it really expands my views as well, most of penlopes ideas are things I never thought of and this essay gave me a whole new perspective on art 10/10 I'm living for these
Aw thank you!
I really appreciate you sharing your theory of the "art network"! I found it really insightful and thought-provoking. I think the discourse that's been happening about AI vs. human art lately has made it really clear that we don't think enough about what the abstract process of art actually is (and this applies to every side of the debate, to be clear). I had a discussion with an artist friend of mine last year about that topic, and we came to the conclusion that something important about the role of a person as an artist is how their own practical experiences are represented in their work. I think I'm going to share this post with her.
Your "art network" idea is a really interesting expansion of that. It almost seems like there's two kinds of mediation going on here. Of course the art is mediating between the artist and the person engaging with the work, but the artist is also doing the job of mediating between the viewer/listener and the broader cultural background. From that perspective, the art functions less like a means of mediation and more like a direct extension of the artist, or a tool they're using for that purpose.
This leaves room for some weird John Cage-y screwing around with who or what is doing the mediating. Cage (IIRC) thought it was arrogant of us to center the human in this mediation, perhaps because it means the cultural information is going to be filtered through the perspective of an individual. There's an argument to be made that that filtering is necessary, or at least productive. But Cage's experimental stuff like 4'33" and random radio samples tried to decenter the artist from the process. Did he succeed at that? Idk. The very fact that I'm using his name as a descriptor might indicate that, despite his intentions, the imprint of Cage as an individual (through those very intentions!) is firmly placed upon the work.
But even still, it's not Cage himself that has become part of it; it's just his perspective on the zeitgeist. So we get this fascinating contradiction where the work is both profoundly personal and inherently impersonal to the artist. I guess, to sum it up, you aren't having a personal relationship *with* the artist; you're having a personal relationship *through* them.
I’m glad you like the Art Network theory! You’re touching on some interesting, information theory/data sciency concepts here. When I was doing research for this Art Network idea, I was influenced by images which diagram communication between a message’s source and its receiver. Many of the diagrams I looked at are from this book: Shannon, C. E. “A Mathematical Theory of Communication.” Reprinted with corrections from The Bell System Technical Journal, vol. 27, 1948, pp. 379-423, 623-656.
Very neat! A nice little talk to end my night on, I feel a lil smarter and more understanding after listening. P. S. The little jingles and songs in the background got me bopping my head while I listened.
As an artist, as well as an Artist, (but an artist first,) thank you for putting things that can't be put into words, into words. Love your work always 🫶
I love your definition and exploration of the descriptive and prescriptive laws, it makes so much sense. I am currently doing a counselling course and on the part of ethics it is explained in different ways how to be ethical, but people intrinsically can be caring and empathetic and following ethics, so it is very much a descriptive law.
As well your point about art and everyone having access to the network, it’s something i feel deeply now since i had to rethink my priorities. It is so strange but reassuring to feel this need to do something, read a book, write about my thoughts, write some lyrics from inspirations i have from other art. So far i have been focusing on doing work and trying to live a life, making myself feel like shit because of not being able to do everything i need to do, aka be a good cog in the capitalist machine. I am so glad i have finally woken up from that nightmare and realised what is actually important. I am looking forward to expressing my artistic self and be part of the intrinsic network.
I think with your point of blurred lines and people’s expectations of artists, my view is that this comes from a misinterpretation of what is happening now and how people should be treated the same way, as it’s how it’s been. As well in the same way that people relate the art to themselves, they see themselves in the artists as expectations. That is, they see the artist as being free, having so much money from the art they create, and don’t have to do a 9-5 job. As such, when the artist is not responding the way they expect when they see them in person, they start personalising and saying that they are ungrateful, because they want that life and they would themselves be so thankful to the fans. It stems from lack of empathy, envy, and unwillingness to understand how fame looks like in our world today. As well as wider issue of not wanting the accept how fame is affecting women in more dangerous ways, because of the patriarchy and misogyny.
Anyway, i love this and i would actually like to have a deeper dive about the technical view behind art, the way you express yourself in these posts really connect with people’s inner self and thoughts, thank you!
*Ping ping ping ping ping*!
Omg I was so excited when I saw the notification for this. I love listening to these.
I just spent 20 min. Writing a comment on your amazing essay. As i forgot to send im now filled with rage and wont write it again. Just know that it was amazing and absolutely made sense. Loved the part about capitalism. P.s come to berlin 🥹
I wasn't able to listen to this when it dropped (because I had two back to back quizzes to study for), but now that I finally got around to listening/reading it, I wish I'd done it earlier, I really really love the idea of the art network, it's something that has always made sense to me even though I've never been able to explain it properly, everyone can, and should make art; For me, drawing and painting are so important to me, and I invest a lot of my time into it, but I'm not an artist, not because I'm an amateur (even though I really am lol) but because making anything at all is a simultaneously natural and alien experience, expressing yourself through art is kind of like tracing out the shape of who you are in the invisible vastness that you dubbed the art network, or like describing yourself in a language you can understand but not speak, hearing you explain it like this was so enlightening.
I'd also love to hear more about what you said in that one footnote, about how humans are creatures of syntax and so we made computers in our image? It's probably really straightforward but it sounds intriguing (and not at all insufferable?!) and I wouldn't mind hearing more about it if you ever feel like it.
Oh and congrats on your latest show, it looked amazing! ☆☆☆
Whenever these post I get so excited! I love hearing about art theory through your amazing voice! Does make me feel a bit dumb lol oops
I love hearing other people’s thoughts on everything, this is so cool!
Another thought provoking banger🔥🔥🔥
I (ironically) don't have the words to articulate exactly *why* but this essay made me feel hopeful in a way. Or maybe it made me feel a little less lonely. It evoked something at the very least lol
I'm really late to this essay but I wanted to listen/read it in one sitting. I am obsessed with this theory. As an ameture actor and poet, it's empowering to think about it as communicating like ants with pheremones. I think though I got the most out of this through the lense of being a choral singer. I recently had the fortune to sing in a mass regional choir with the top singers my age in my state, and we spent a lot of time talking about how to connect with the emotional content of different pieces of music on an individual level. It's interesting to me to think about how we as a choir were one entity communicating one emotion through one piece of art, but each of us was thinking about a different feeling from a different set of circumstances. My friend group at the event went around the circle sharing all the different places and events in our lives we were projecting and attaching the songs to, and yeah they were related but there was a lot of diversity in content and range between each person, and people brought up things I would have never considered relevant to the song on my own, yet so perfectly were. And yet, when put together, we were one artist, one entity, and it was one feeling that we sent out together, all of our nodes or whatever the proper computer science term was were sending out slightly different signals and yet everyone on the receiving end interpreted them together. I think that's really what draws me to choral music, and I really appreciate you giving me the language and perspective to reflect on that.
Hey Penny I have a question will there ever be a junkyard 3 or something with your scraped/unfinished songs? Maybe some other versions like glitzy sweet hibiscus tea or love from Russia?